When Dame Sheila Hancock answers the phone, I’m a little taken aback; it’s strange to hear such a familiar voice at the end of the line. And it’s familiar because Sheila has been on our screens since the 1950s, as well as having an illustrious career on stage and as a bestselling author. Throughout everything she’s done, she’s brought her trademark fiery wit, and the next place she’ll be doing so is in conversation with TV presenter Janet Ellis at the Lavenham Literary Festival on November 2. Being a literary festival and all, she’ll be talking about her latest book, Old Rage.
‘I’m bored of talking about Old Rage,’ Sheila says. Oh, perhaps not then. I’m sorry to say I pressed a national treasure, and she graciously agreed...
‘All my books seem to have touched people. Particularly The Two of Us, my book about John (Thaw, Sheila’s dearly departed actor husband) and I,’ Sheila tells me. ‘There’s a lot in it about addiction and bereavement; it’s still used in bereavement counselling, and I get letters from people saying it’s the first thing they’ve read that is exactly how they feel.
‘Because of that, my publisher said “you seem to be handling old age well. Why not write a really positive book about growing old?” But then Brexit happened. Covid happened. So the book turns into an absolute rant. As well as, I hope, lighter moments. But the world wasn’t easy and growing old wasn’t easy. During the pandemic I was isolated. I, as well as countless others, got a letter from the dreaded Boris Johnson saying that it would be wiser for me not to go out. So it became a book about lockdown, which I can barely believe happened. But it was very real at the time.
‘There’s a lot about facing death, being older, adapting. It isn’t a book about old age, but I am old, so inevitably it is.’
After this opportunity for introspection, I wonder what Sheila has learnt about ageing. ‘One of the most difficult things in old age is letting go. It’s like Joe Biden or Andy Murray the tennis player; it’s very difficult to move on when you get to a stage that something’s no longer right for you.
‘I took a driving test and came out with flying colours. But if for a minute I thought I wasn’t driving well I would have to let that go, which would be a nightmare for me. My wheels get me around and mean I can avoid public transport!’
The Two of Us and Sheila’s follow-up book, Just Me, have proved a wonderful companion to readers. But does she find writing cathartic? ‘No. It’s a job,’ she replies. ‘As we speak, I’m jotting notes for my column in Prospect magazine. Every month I think I won’t have anything to say. It’s terrifying.
‘People ask if it makes me feel good, but writing is really quite hard. You have to put in the hours, fact-check, interview, research. It’s rather like acting. People talk about how much you must enjoy it, but after eight shows a week for a year, you do begin to find it hard to keep it fresh.’
A household name since the 1950s (‘I don’t know if I’m a household name,’ Sheila protests), she made her big break in BBC sitcom The Rag Trade. She has appeared in countless films, TV series and theatre productions since, and moving into her 80s and 90s, she is still working. Her 2017 film Edie sees her character grappling with getting older as she climbs a mountain. And incredibly, Sheila actually climbed Suilven in the Scottish Highlands during filming. ‘That was really hard work,’ she remembers. ‘I did three months of hard training. No one my age has ever done it. I know I couldn’t do it now.’
Not content with a highly successful career in acting and writing, Sheila is also a trailblazing director; she was the first female artistic director of the Royal Shakespeare Company tour. But she remains modest about her feminist-icon status.
‘I’ve quietly broken a few barriers,’ Sheila says. ‘Years ago, I did a BBC programme called Rag Trade, and that was the first time women had been the leads in a comedy like that. Our characters were in a union, and we always won against the men, but it’s never mentioned as a breakthrough show for women. Why? Because it’s a comedy and it’s not taken seriously, and it p***es me off slightly. There were three strong, working-class women in the lead, we had audiences of 22 million and the whole country saw women demanding rights in the workplace. It was comedic – and I showed my bum and t*ts – but all in a good cause!’
Moving into her 90s, Sheila is certainly not disappearing from the limelight just yet, but she is being more selective about what she takes on. 'I won’t be doing a long run in a play, but I'm happy to do small parts in television. I recently did The Sixth Commandment on the BBC with Timothy Spall. I only had a tiny part, simply because I wanted to be in it. Tim was utterly remarkable, and a lot of my mates were in it. That’s the dream job now: a nice small part in a series with a few mates.’
Sheila was first female director of the Royal Shakespeare Company tour and the first woman to direct at the Olivier Theatre (at the National Theatre). ‘I did do little breakthroughs, but they’re not big enough to register. I occasionally get a little thank you from people in my profession,’ she says.
But you never know the butterfly effect of these ‘little breakthroughs’, and how many women saw Sheila lead the way and it pushed them to go further. Sheila laughs, ‘When I was younger, I wasn’t as militant as I am now. It was an accident if I appeared to be leading anything. I just thought about whether it would pay the rent.’
It was during her stint at the Royal Shakespeare Company tour that Sheila had a profound experience, which has stuck with her. ‘The tour went around the country performing Romeo and Juliet, and I had the most amazing cast, all of whom became big stars. We visited Belfast during the troubles and when we arrived, we thought, Romeo and Juliet is about religion and a divided society – are we being dangerous here?
‘Everywhere we went we had people with guns protecting us. You can imagine the Royal Shakespeare Company wasn’t welcome in a lot of quarters. We did a performance in a school hall and at the end of the show there was a sort of religious march for the funeral. When it was over, there was about two minutes total silence, then the audience went mad; they were cuddling and kissing us and saying thank you for coming. People weren’t going to Belfast at the time; we were told it was dangerous. The hotel where we stayed had been bombed a little while before and it was still sandbagged up. But that night, that silence and that audience... that was my best theatrical moment ever. It’s better than any of the big things I’ve done.’
It’s hard to imagine someone with Sheila’s CV being quite so humble – dare I say I even detected a hint of imposter syndrome when I asked her about her 2021 damehood. ‘It’s very nice, but I can’t take it seriously for me,’ she says. ‘I can’t sit here like I’m sure Judi (Dench) can and think “yes, I’ve done some amazing performances; I deserve this.” I’ve scrabbled around a bit, and I’ve kept working. I think whoever decides these things thinks they ought to give one to an actress like me: a working-class girl whose made good. So I think it’s partly for having a dodgy background! I think Barbara (Windsor) felt similar – it was time a cockney got one! Having said that, I am very proud.’
As I had called, Sheila was filling in a form and noticed there was no dame tick box – but there was one for sirs. ‘I don’t use the title very much – unless I’m asking for money for charity – but some of the other dames have said “come on, Sheila, it’s not fair. The knighthoods are recognised and there are far fewer dames than sirs”. And the fact dames are not listed on these forms... we’ve got to fight back! So for that reason, I’m now starting to say “yes, I am a dame.”’
MUSICAL ADVOCATE
Always one to try something new, Sheila commentated on concerts at the BBC Proms 2024 – one on Mahler and one on Mozart. She reveals that she was thrilled to be asked to take part, and it soon becomes clear that it means much more to her than just an opportunity to talk about her favourite music.
‘I am passionate that more people should be able to enjoy classical music,’ she says. ‘There are many people who never get to hear any, so they don’t know it’s there. And now music is being cut from the state syllabus, which is infuriating.
‘My passion now is to popularise classical music. I want children to have a cultural life. Some children have no culture other than hatred and prejudice and whatever other things their adults are sadly teaching them. I do a concert with the National Youth Orchestra, they’re around 16 to 19 years old, and they’re playing classical music in the Royal Albert Hall and everybody’s cheering them and they’re making friends and it’s so unfair. I want that for everybody.’
And what a position to be in: to pick what excites you. ‘To have new opportunities when you’re 91 is breathtaking. And I hope it proves to other women that it’s never too late to do something new.’
Tom Henry is returning with his popular Writer’s Workshop, while the guest speaker at the Literary Dinner at the Swan Hotel is Private Eye satirist and author Craig Brown, discussing his latest book, A Voyage Round the Queen.
The star-studded programme includes former politician and bestselling author Alan Johnson in conversation with former BBC Radio Suffolk presenter Lesley Dolphin, and Patrick Barkham discussing his biography of naturalist Roger Deakin. Foodies and Radio 4 fans will enjoy Dr Annie Gray’s history of the British high street, while historian Tracy Borman will take audiences Behind Closed Doors at the Royal Palaces.
Ashley Hickson-Lovence introduces his novel, Wild East, and is holding a poetry workshop. There are also two debut authors, Hilary Taylor, whose Sea Defences is shortlisted for the Paul Torday Memorial Prize for first novels by writers over 60, and Jyoti Patel with The Things We Lost.
Two eminent Shakespeare experts, theatre director Bill Alexander and actor Dame Janet Suzman, will be discussing Bill’s book, Exploring Shakespeare – a Director’s Notes from the Rehearsal Room.
Finally, the festival has linked up with Abbeygate Cinema in Bury St Edmunds, which will be having a special showing of Sheila Hancock’s film, Edie, on Saturday, November 2, and Captain Corelli’s Mandolin (introduced by Louise de Bernieres) on November 3.
Tickets available at whatsonwestsuffolk.co.uk Further information at lavenhamliteraryfestival.co.uk
